Workflow problem with RAW + Lens Correction Profiles

questions about practical use of Neat Image
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sppp
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:01 pm

Workflow problem with RAW + Lens Correction Profiles

Post by sppp »

Hello,
I'm NI happy user since years. Recently I've changed system (bridge camera -> SLR). I'm trying to find out my own workflow and I stuck at the wall.
In the past I did JPG photos and workflow was very simple: Camera->NI->Photoshop. Now, with SLR I wanted to switch to RAW because of more adjust posibilities and not loosing data (JPG compression, 8-bit, etc.).
I choose RAWTherapee as RAW processing soft. Till now it works perfect and almost perfectly suits my needs. Workflow RT->NI worked fine if there was not excess corrections applied in RT. But recently, after solving problems, I started to use automatic photo correction using Lens Correction Proflies. Of course I created calibration profiles and use it for denoise.
The problem is - If I'll use RT to correct photos with LCP profile, NI does not remove noise (or remove very little). If I'll create TIFF in RT without lens correction, denoise in NI, load again into RT - I can't fully apply LCP (vigneting and chromatic aberration correction does not work). I assume that the problem is because Lens Correction causes changes in image geometry and after correction image noise does not fit noise profile, also image noise is not uniform on whole image. And that is my Gordian Knot - I can have either this or that. But I want to have both.
Theoretically problem could be solved by autoprofiling each image. But first autoprofile is making mistakes sometimes selecting area that does not represent noise in current image. I would have to profile each image - impossible, I have calibration profiles created to do it for me. Second - noise uniformity deformation because of picture geometry correction by LCP.
What to do?

I saw some topics here about DNG (or RAW in general) . I think implement of DNG support would be perfect and solve problem described above. First you dont have to deal with all camera image formats - Adobe did it for you (DNG Converter). But:
I am not sure having RAW data in .DNG format makes it significantly easier to read. It still requires RAW->RGB conversion and that is not something Neat Image is designed for.

Vlad
I dont't know NI algorithms of course, but why not to threat RAW image as monochrome? In fact in RAW file you have information "directly" from sensor which is monochrome (except Foveon). Monochrome sensor is coated with filter (Beyer RGBG or other). But it's still monochrome sensor and noise should be uniform on whole monochromatic image. Denoise DNG and save it in the same format will allow denoising at lowest level and further processing in RAW processing programs.

Best Regards
Sebastian
NITeam
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Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 4:43 pm
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Re: Workflow problem with RAW + Lens Correction Profiles

Post by NITeam »

Lets try to diagnose the problem.

1. "Of course I created calibration profiles and use it for denoise."
Did you build those profiles using test images that were also processed by LCP in RT? Or the test images did not go through exactly the same workflow as your actual working images that you denoise?

2. Not as a solution but as a test please do the following:
a. export the original image as a JPEG from RT;
b. open and process it in NI to reduce noise, save the result as a new JPEG (with highest quality);
c. re-open in RT and check if you still can apply LCP to the image.

Thank you,
Vlad
sppp
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:01 pm

Post by sppp »

1. No. Calibration profiles were done before I started to work with LCP.
I understand of course that it can't work properly with that profile after changing image geometry. Anyway - I see no possibility to create calibration profiles for 4 different lenses, different focal lengths, different distances and different ISO. It makes thousands of profiles. Not possible to create, also NI will not be able to choose profile depending on lens, focal length and distance.
2. I tried it but with TIFF. I process in RT to 16 bit TIFF -> NI -> RT. As I wrote before - I can't apply LCP fully (chromatic aberration and vigneting does not work) as well as I can't apply white ballance. As far as I know chromatic aberration correction is applied before demosaicing (read on some forum topic regarding RAW processing).
If I would be able to apply fully LCP correction to TIFF in RT or another software (but automatic batch processing) I would be happiest man in universe.

But still I think using NI in the beginning of workflow is the best sollution. In the past I was puting JPEGs to NI directly from camera, it was first step.
NITeam
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Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 4:43 pm
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Post by NITeam »

Continuing the diagnosting:
sppp wrote:1. No. Calibration profiles were done before I started to work with LCP.
Please build one test profile using a calibration image that was processed with LCP and then try to process an actual image for which that profile would be matching. Is noise reduced better now than it was with previously used profiles?
sppp wrote:2. I tried it but with TIFF. I process in RT to 16 bit TIFF -> NI -> RT.
Please run the the test I suggested earlier:
a. export the original image as a JPEG from RT;
b. open and process it in NI to reduce noise, save the result as a new JPEG (with highest quality);
c. re-open in RT and check if you still can apply LCP to the image.
The point of this test is to find out whether RT still can apply LCP to the image when it is in JPEG format.

Thank you,
Vlad
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