Hyperthreading and dual processor support

suggest a way to improve Neat Image
chasfs

Hyperthreading and dual processor support

Post by chasfs »

I process very large images - 50 - 80 megapixels. I'm using an Athlon 1.3GHz with 1GB of memory. Unlike some competing products, Neat Image can handle the images, but its takes tens of minutes. If I buy a new CPU, should I go for either hyperthreading or dual CPU? Does 5.0 support either of these now? If not, any plans to do so in the future?
Thanks,
-chasfs
NITeam
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Post by NITeam »

NI does support mutliple processors. When you process images in the filtration queue, more than one image can be processed at a time.

Regarding the purchase decision, I would recommend a dual CPU over HT. HT would typically provide 5-15% speedup, while a dual CPU would give it 70-80%.

Hope this helps.
Vlad
Spire
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Post by Spire »

I am still hoping for SMP/HT support while processing a single image.

I'm not sure how difficult this would be, since it depends on the architecture of the application. I'm hoping that the implementation can be done relatively simply. It might even be as simple as dividing the image in half and processing each half in its own thread -- maybe with a little overlap to handle the seam.

Is this a possibility in the foreseeable future?
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Post by NITeam »

It is possible that we will do that but do not forget that HT provides just 5-15% improvement. By doing general optimization we have provided about 10 times better improvement in NI v5 - it works at 250% speed of v4, while HT would provide just ~110%.

Vlad
Spire
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Post by Spire »

I should have mentioned that my system is a true dual-processor machine (Athlon MP 2800+).

I have to say that the speed improvements you have been able to achieve with each new version of Neat Image are simply staggering, and immensely appreciated. My investment in Neat Image just keeps on giving.

I fully understand that general optimization is a more logical path to be taking, since all users stand to benefit. If true SMP support is not too hard to implement, I would love to see it happen at some point, since the performance gains would also be great, even if for just a percentage of users.
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Post by NITeam »

I think we will improve support for dual processor systems in the newer versions. It does require some extra work but I believe it makes sense to do it because some machines (like yours) already have two CPUs and newer computers are going to include dual CPUs even more often.

Thank you for your suggestion,
Vlad
ruusnak
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Dual core X2

Post by ruusnak »

I also noticed that the PS plugin does not benefit from using a dual core CPU (AMD 4200 X2 in my case).
Noise Ninja does that, now the same image using NN takes 6.3 sec (was 10.9 with AMD 3500+). NeatImage still takes 14.5 secs
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Post by NITeam »

But NI does produce better results, doesn't it? :)

Anyway, we work on this and the support for dual core CPUs will be introduced in one of the next updates.

Vlad
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Post by ruusnak »

NITeam wrote:But NI does produce better results, doesn't it? :)
Anyway, we work on this and the support for dual core CPUs will be introduced in one of the next updates.
Vlad
:lol: Yes, I prefer NI results, good to hear you're working on this!
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Post by NITeam »

In v5.2, Neat Image does supports dual-core CPUs. You may want to download the latest version.

Kind regards,
Vlad
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Post by linux-works »

NITeam wrote:In v5.2, Neat Image does supports dual-core CPUs. You may want to download the latest version.

Kind regards,
Vlad
hi vlad,

to be extra clear, its worth saying WHAT kind of support (or benefit) you'll get from dualcore or SMP (and also HT).

ie, are you splitting one image processing task ACROSS multiple cpu's? or will the SMP stuff only help if you have multiple CONCURRENT jobs to process?

people really want to know if 2 cpus will help speed up the processing of a SINGLE image.

so please be clear when you talk about multi cpu use - if this will benefit the processing of a single image (speedup) or only for multi-images/batch.

(I think in the windows world, colloquially, when they say a program is 'multi threaded', that implies that you get a single-user single-task boost from additional cpus and that you don't need to be doing multiple 'things' at once to see extra gains from that 2nd cpu or core).

thanks,

/bryan
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Post by NITeam »

people really want to know if 2 cpus will help speed up the processing of a SINGLE image.
Yes, it will use 2 CPUs for a single image. The previous Neat Image versions did use 2 CPUs but only when you processed several images in the filtration queue. Now Neat Image uses 2 CPUs even for a single image, so if you use for example the plug-in version of Neat Image then it will now work faster in Photoshop. The Filtration Job Editor will also process a single image faster when two CPUs or a dual-core CPU is available (and of course you have to have the corresponding option enabled in Neat Image Options).

Hope this question is clarified now.

Vlad
blueman541
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dual-core CPUs not 100% yet?

Post by blueman541 »

It is awesome NI can use 100% cpu power of a dual-core when processing an image, but i found a bug? or is it just me?

When doing batched processes in the filteration queue, NI only uses 50% of the cpu's dual-core power when it Queues up the files in a folder.
Then when it filters afterwards it uses 100%


**What is NI doing when it queues batched files? it takes a long time to queue up a 2gb folder.
Looked at windows process I/O Read Byte, seems like NI is reading the file before being queued. Any way to increase this speed up?



NITeam wrote:In v5.2, Neat Image does supports dual-core CPUs. You may want to download the latest version.

Kind regards,
Vlad
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Post by NITeam »

Yes, NI reads the files to send them to batch. The bottleneck in this process is usually the hard drive, not CPU, so using 1 or 2 cores usually makes little difference. There may be another way of speeding up this process though. We are now considering it in our team. Thank you for bringing this up.

Best regards,
Vlad
blueman541
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Post by blueman541 »

So is it just a coincident that the Queuing of files never uses over 50% of the cpu processing power and stays at 50% throughout the queuing?

Actually i tried opening Two instance of NI, and queuing files, it goes twice as fast. So, i think NI isn't using dual-core potential at the queue stage.

I watched the I/O byte read rate, it doesn't seem to go faster than what the HD can output. Feels as if NI is doing some processing or reprocessing to each file checking something before the initial filtering.


NITeam wrote:Yes, NI reads the files to send them to batch. The bottleneck in this process is usually the hard drive, not CPU, so using 1 or 2 cores usually makes little difference. There may be another way of speeding up this process though. We are now considering it in our team. Thank you for bringing this up.

Best regards,
Vlad
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