I have just started using Neat Image and I am really impressed.
Apologies if this question is dumb and/or covered in your documentation.
My question is about whre the best place for NeatImage filtering is in the workflow. Before NeatImage my normal workflow was:
Raw Converter Set white balace, basic exposure corrections etc. then save as a 16 bit TIFF
Photoshop 7 All the other stuff - save as TIFF (obviously 8 bit)
Prepare for Print Photoshop 7 again - size image - final sharpening - print image.
It seems to me that, as Neat Image seems to work with 16 bit TIFFs, that the obvious place for it to live is before the image goes into Photoshop for the first time (and hits 8-bit land) - on the other hand it seems to make sense for Neat Image to be there at the end when preperation for printing goes on.
Also if (when?) I am lucky enough to become a Photoshop CS user how would this change? - I am given to understand that Photoshop CS allows you to remain in 16 bit mode throughout the workflow.
Any comments / suggestions would be gratefully received.
Workflow Question
mjk,
It was my impression that Photoshop 7 is able to open, filter (at least with some plug-ins, including Neat Image) and save 16-bit images. If this is true I think your question has to be slightly modified.
The position of Neat Image in the workflow is not an issue of Photoshop capabilities but rather of your preferences. In principle, Neat Image can be used at any stage of the workflow provided the device noise profiles you use are built at the same stage.
Related to this, there is an issue of the profile management - you have to keep record of the device mode and software post-processing steps used to produce an image that comes to Neat Image. You have to keep these records within device noise profiles. In this sense, it is easier to deal with images just from the camera because all you need to put into the comments of device noise profiles is the camera mode, which is easily obtained by copying the EXIF data from image file to device noise profiles.
Vlad
It was my impression that Photoshop 7 is able to open, filter (at least with some plug-ins, including Neat Image) and save 16-bit images. If this is true I think your question has to be slightly modified.
The position of Neat Image in the workflow is not an issue of Photoshop capabilities but rather of your preferences. In principle, Neat Image can be used at any stage of the workflow provided the device noise profiles you use are built at the same stage.
Related to this, there is an issue of the profile management - you have to keep record of the device mode and software post-processing steps used to produce an image that comes to Neat Image. You have to keep these records within device noise profiles. In this sense, it is easier to deal with images just from the camera because all you need to put into the comments of device noise profiles is the camera mode, which is easily obtained by copying the EXIF data from image file to device noise profiles.
Vlad
Thanks for the reply.
You're right of course, you can carry out certain operations in Photoshop 7 and stay in 16 bit mode - however many of the functions that make Photoshop such a good tool require you to convert your image to 8 bit. Layers aren't supported and adjustment layers are one of the features that make Photoshop so powerful.
I think your reply has made me realise the importance of correct profiling. I have created profiles for my camera (an Olympus E-10) at its different ISO settings using your test image. It sounds from your reply that I need to take the test image through my basic workflow and create a profile at key points and use the appropriate profile according to where in my workflow I apply Neat Image filtering.
I still feel that I have the same quandry however, i.e.:
1. A desire to do as much image manipulation whilst the image is in 16 bit mode.
and
2. A feeling that the best place for noise removal is at the print preparation stage, particularly to take care of any artifacts that haven't become apparent or have been produced during the sizing and sharpening stages.
This is all probably down to me being new to the product. I must say that in my initial use of Neat Image I have been amazed and really pleased with the results.
One thing I have found is that although I have had no problems with large file sizes when using Neat Image stand alone this has not been the case when using it as a plug-in. I guess this is more to do with Photoshop and the way it manages memory than with Neat Image itself.
Incidently I was "turned on" to Neat Image by Michael Reichmann's excellent Luminous Landscape web site. He describes Neat Image as "the best digital noise reduction software currently on the market" and given my initial experiences I certainly believe him.
Thankyou for such a speedy reply to my post but most of all for such a brilliant product.
You're right of course, you can carry out certain operations in Photoshop 7 and stay in 16 bit mode - however many of the functions that make Photoshop such a good tool require you to convert your image to 8 bit. Layers aren't supported and adjustment layers are one of the features that make Photoshop so powerful.
I think your reply has made me realise the importance of correct profiling. I have created profiles for my camera (an Olympus E-10) at its different ISO settings using your test image. It sounds from your reply that I need to take the test image through my basic workflow and create a profile at key points and use the appropriate profile according to where in my workflow I apply Neat Image filtering.
I still feel that I have the same quandry however, i.e.:
1. A desire to do as much image manipulation whilst the image is in 16 bit mode.
and
2. A feeling that the best place for noise removal is at the print preparation stage, particularly to take care of any artifacts that haven't become apparent or have been produced during the sizing and sharpening stages.
This is all probably down to me being new to the product. I must say that in my initial use of Neat Image I have been amazed and really pleased with the results.
One thing I have found is that although I have had no problems with large file sizes when using Neat Image stand alone this has not been the case when using it as a plug-in. I guess this is more to do with Photoshop and the way it manages memory than with Neat Image itself.
Incidently I was "turned on" to Neat Image by Michael Reichmann's excellent Luminous Landscape web site. He describes Neat Image as "the best digital noise reduction software currently on the market" and given my initial experiences I certainly believe him.
Thankyou for such a speedy reply to my post but most of all for such a brilliant product.
mjk,
Thank you for detailed reply.
I will just add a few comments.
- Yes, I know PS7 does not support everything in 16 bits (nothing to be precise, but this is another issue). However, there is a new version to come to our computers soon and hopefully it will be more capable in this respect.
- You are completely right about importance of profiling. Building profile and using it should be done at the same stage of processing, this is the most important rule.
- I believe both Neat Image standalone and plug-in can handle 16-bit image processing that you need in your tasks whatever stage of the workflow you decide to use Neat Image at, so if you feel you want to do this at the print preparation stage then this should be fine with the tool.
Related to this, if you experience any trouble with the plug-in and Photoshop, I advise to review the memory settings of Photoshop. It is important to NOT give all the Windows RAM to Photoshop, or there will be no working space for the plug-in.
Thank you for your kind comments about Neat Image and you are certainly right about the excellent site of Michael Reichmann.
Kind regards,
Vlad
Thank you for detailed reply.
I will just add a few comments.
- Yes, I know PS7 does not support everything in 16 bits (nothing to be precise, but this is another issue). However, there is a new version to come to our computers soon and hopefully it will be more capable in this respect.
- You are completely right about importance of profiling. Building profile and using it should be done at the same stage of processing, this is the most important rule.
- I believe both Neat Image standalone and plug-in can handle 16-bit image processing that you need in your tasks whatever stage of the workflow you decide to use Neat Image at, so if you feel you want to do this at the print preparation stage then this should be fine with the tool.
Related to this, if you experience any trouble with the plug-in and Photoshop, I advise to review the memory settings of Photoshop. It is important to NOT give all the Windows RAM to Photoshop, or there will be no working space for the plug-in.
Thank you for your kind comments about Neat Image and you are certainly right about the excellent site of Michael Reichmann.
Kind regards,
Vlad
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Trevor Morris
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