Neat Image and Matrox dual-head cards - workaround available

[Dan Johnson]

Just tried installing v5.0 Pro+ onto a new PC running XP Pro.

Download site accepted my username and registration number as valid and both d/l and installation seemed to run normally.

When I open NI either as the standalone or as the PS CS2 plugin, it opens but it's dead in the water. Wherever I click has no effect, but Windoze Task Manager shows NI as "running".

Any ideas where I go from here?

Thanks

[NITeam]

Try to start Neat Image holding CTRL key depressed.

BTW, is it a Matrox dual-head videocard that you have in your new PC?

Thank you,
Vlad

[Guest]

Hey Vlad, the ctrl trick works!

And yes, it's a Matrox Millenium P650.

So do I have to hit Ctrl whenever I want to launch NI or is there a way round that?

I assume the problem is to do with the video card??????

[NITeam]

We have received several similar reports and in all cases Matrox cards were used. I suspect the Matrox drivers use some non-standard tricks to support dual monitor configurations and that caused the trouble. Neat Image works just fine on other cards and in cases when Windows manages the dual monitor setup, not Matrox drivers. However, when Matrox drivers do that instead of Windows then the trouble begins.

I believe you will not have to press Ctrl every time you start NI. The effect that you observed seems to be occuring only when you maximize NI window and restart NI after that. If the window is not maximized then there should be no trouble.

I would be happy to directly check what is going on on a Matrox-based system and how the effect depends on Matrox driver configuration. Unfortunately I couldn't get my hands on such a system yet.

Could you let me know more about the setup of the card that you have on your new PC? - Is it actually set to use two monitors? Which mode (there could be different ways of arranging the desktop space over two monitors) is used?

Thank you,
Vlad

[Dan Johnson]

Vlad, thank you for your help.

It is set up with two monitors, in independent mode. If you need to know anything else, just ask.[/i]

[NITeam]

Thank you.

Vlad

[NITeam]

Dear Neat Image users who run NI on dualhead Matrox videocards,

If NI works fine on your system or if it shows any problems, please send us (support at neatimage.com) screenshot(s) of Matrox Powerdesk settings, including settings specific to Neat Image. This will help us identify those settings in Powerdesk that may cause trouble with Neat Image.

Pay special attention to MaxView and related settings.

Thank you,
Vlad

[NITeam]

A workaround for Matrox cards seems to be the following:

- disable the MaxView setting, at least for Neat Image window.

Vlad

[linux-works]

here are some screenshots you wanted (version #'s):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works/sets/1140671/

(click on full-size to see the text, better, of course).

about one in every 5 runs, NI crashes on me. I am able to load an image, start to profile the noise, then move onto the next phase where I adjust sliders to suit taste. all that usually works ok. it seems that when I try to save the file, it then crashes every few times.

I'm running xp sp2, no warez or any net.stuff that would be funny, fully anti-vir'd, fully MS updated, etc etc. system is stable, in terms of hardware.

if I can help debug (or enable some kind of tracing, let me know). I'm still evaluating - and considering the full pro+ version, but the crashes have me wondering how stable it will be.

I always run dualhead matrox (agp) cards and I have a dual dvi (semi-special edition, not easily found) g550 with 2 identical sharp lcd's, in dvi mode.

thanks,

/bryan

[NITeam]

Thank you for the screenshots.

I would try to disable "save/restore window positions", at least for NI windows. Please try this to see whether it helps.

Do you have the MaxView setting in Powerdesk Multi-Display Controls window?

Also, could you describe the crashes you observe? Are there any error messages? Screenshots of crashes?

Thank you very much,
Vlad

[linux-works]

Thank you for the screenshots.

I would try to disable "save/restore window positions", at least for NI windows. Please try this to see whether it helps.

that can be done selectively on a per-client basis? interesting! how would I do that (I'm more of a unix guy than a winders guy)

Do you have the MaxView setting in Powerdesk Multi-Display Controls window?

I don't see that at all. all the settings that look like they would be interesting, I have taken screensnaps of. perhaps I deinstalled the larger program (matrox) and kept only a simple driver? not sure. I think so, though - I was annoyed seeing the matrox stuff at powerup and also the tray icon. I never switch resolution and I always run in dualhead 'xinerama' mode, logically gluing one screen to the right of the other; one large logical single screen.

Also, could you describe the crashes you observe? Are there any error messages? Screenshots of crashes?

I'll note them down next time they happen. I just recently got a windows screen snap program (odd that its missing from base windows..). the error message was pretty generic though - 'app had to shutdown, hit any key if you agree, hit any other key if you disagree' typical windows crap messages.

is there any tracing or debugging I could enable? (in the unix world, I'd run the binary with a '-d' switch or do a 'setenv DEBUG_LEVEL' or something to create a trace file. is there any tracing or similar I can do with this program? simply having it die and not telling you what caused it (file system full or no swapping space, corrupt file, SOMETHING useful to aid in tshooting..

but I'll snap an error msg next time I happens.

/bryan

[linux-works]

also, I'm curious is there any better stability (or honestly, even less) when run as a pshop plugin vs standalone?

I would think standalone would be more stable since you dont' have a 'foreign' api to have to interface to. you also don't have to inherit any pshop bugs or stuff like that.

but I wonder, if I'm getting crashes on the standalone program, would the plugin (which I do want to buy) be any more/less stable?

finally, is there any way to check point work so that if a crash happens, you never lose intermediate work or settings?

kind of annoying that I get the noise profile all set (via auto profile), then I play with the sliders, finally get them where I want, then (now) I have to write them down on paper since 1 in 5 times, the program will just crash and I'll have to start ALL over again ;(

if there was some kind of checkpointing, then in theory, I could re-run the program, it could notice a previous partial session and then (hopefully) continue on where it left off? (like finding a vi.recover file and letting the user continue his work).

the windows world NEEDS this level of robustness. it just needs it - because the enclosing o/s (xp) STILL isn't the most stable platform in the world, and it seems the apps have to be on the defensive and try to be crashproof as best they can.

(saving the user's steps to a transaction file, that can later be re-played, like 'journalling', would be a BIG plus in reliability, I would think).

/bryan

[NITeam]

bryan,

I believe we have to resolve the primary issue and then all the questions of stability will fall off automatically.

Please let me know which versions of Neat Image did you try and which one you use now. Probably the trouble is specific to one version and we simply have to check other versions and see what is different.

Thank you,
Vlad

[NITeam]

Do you have the MaxView setting in Powerdesk Multi-Display Controls window?

I don't see that at all. all the settings that look like they would be interesting, I have taken screensnaps of. perhaps I deinstalled the larger program (matrox) and kept only a simple driver? not sure. I think so, though - I was annoyed seeing the matrox stuff at powerup and also the tray icon.

You may want to re-enable that matrox application to see whether it offers any relevant setttings that you can adjust. Look for MaxView in the first place.

I just recently got a windows screen snap program (odd that its missing from base windows..).

In pure Windows you can press the PrtSc key and then paste the screenshot into a new Wordpad document. This usually works just fine.

Hope this helps.
Vlad

[linux-works]

Do you have the MaxView setting in Powerdesk Multi-Display Controls window?

I don't see that at all. all the settings that look like they would be interesting, I have taken screensnaps of. perhaps I deinstalled the larger program (matrox) and kept only a simple driver? not sure. I think so, though - I was annoyed seeing the matrox stuff at powerup and also the tray icon.

You may want to re-enable that matrox application to see whether it offers any relevant setttings that you can adjust. Look for MaxView in the first place.

I'll wait for a crash, first, and snap that screen. then I'll install the latest matrox full driver kit, which will, I'm sure, bring a much more expanded control panel kind of app. (I hope that doesn't _add_ to the trouble..)

In pure Windows you can press the PrtSc key and then paste the screenshot into a new Wordpad document. This usually works just fine.

Hope this helps.
Vlad

thanks, I remember something like that, I just think its a funny way to do a screen capture, but maybe that's my unix bias, again. I did find a standalone screen capture app, so I'm all set now, thanks.