Tramtracks

suggest a way to improve Neat Video
Post Reply
Bruce777
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:36 am

Tramtracks

Post by Bruce777 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:04 am

I have used the Dust and Scratch filter quite a bit recently on old 8mm films I digitised. It does a good job. However, some scratches get through the filter and increasing the slider to 500 has no effect. These scratches tend to mainly be "tramtracks". ie. Vertical lines probably caused by a dirty projector gate.

Perhaps there are ways of helping NV find these scratches.
eg. A tick box indicating it needs to look for tramtracks.
Probably a more likely solution would be if a tool was provided that lets the user point to such scratches and hence mark co-ordinates in the preview window. You could mark the start and end of the scratch or just a single point and let NV trace out the path.
Sounds adventurous, but worth asking I think.
It would be labour intensive for the user, but worth it to get rid of the more annoying of the tramtracks.

Regards
Bruce

NVTeam
Posts: 2377
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:12 pm
Contact:

Post by NVTeam » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:36 am

Yes, that is a known limitation of the Dust and Scratches filter that currently it can only reduce the defects that are present in an individial frame rather than in several consecutive frames. We will try to improve this aspect in the future versions.

Thank you,
Vlad

Bruce777
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:36 am

Post by Bruce777 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:01 pm

Thanks Vlad.

Related to this, while digitising my fathers 8mm I occasionally struck films with a hair or other obstruction that must have been either on the camera lens or somewhere else in the camera until recently I assumed it would be quite rare, but recently digitising my Aunts films I struck a very similar problem.

I suspect a solution to the tramtrack problem could also solve the above hair problem.

Regards
Bruce

Pomfenpauli
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 1:53 pm

Re: Tramtracks

Post by Pomfenpauli » Fri May 24, 2019 2:29 pm

Hi, there,
first of all: I'm absolutely thrilled about the results with Neat by editing old Super 8 movies!
I never expected that could be possible.
But... yes but the tramtracks problem still exists in the new version 5 too.
Is there a workaround or some other idea to solve the problem?
I know it's hard to distinguish between tramtracks and normal film content.
Best regards and thanks again
Stefan

NVTeam
Posts: 2377
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Tramtracks

Post by NVTeam » Fri May 24, 2019 2:43 pm

Thank you for your kind words.

> Is there a workaround or some other idea to solve the problem?

Not yet, but we keep thinking.

Vlad

Pomfenpauli
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 1:53 pm

Re: Tramtracks

Post by Pomfenpauli » Wed May 29, 2019 10:50 am

Hi Vlad,
Thanks for your quick response.
I'm still searching for a workaround to solve the tramtracks problem in some way.
And I thought I had a good idea for a solution with the help of the Deshaker running before Neat Video runs.
Because every Super8 movie shakes more or less and you have to use a video stabilizer anyway.
So why not use Deshaker first to ensure that the tramtracks for Neat Video are not in the same place.
I found this approach pretty good and unfortunately I am negatively surprised that the tramtracks are still there in equal measure.
Yes, I even feel that the dust particles are removed less by Neat Video when Deshaker is not used or after Neat Video.
What Do you think: Where is the mistake in my approach?

NVTeam
Posts: 2377
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Tramtracks

Post by NVTeam » Wed May 29, 2019 1:05 pm

Your idea is generally good. Unfortunately it is defeated by the fact Neat Video still sees those lines as a single moving object because the object is present in several consecutive frames. Without deshaking, that "object" is simply not moving. With deshaking it is moving and looking to Neat Video just like any other real object moving within the frame. Real moving objects are not supposed to be removed by the filter so these lines are also not removed. The filter would need to use some additional criteria to differentiate the lines from actual objects.

Pomfenpauli
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 1:53 pm

Re: Tramtracks

Post by Pomfenpauli » Thu May 30, 2019 4:40 pm

Ok!
Thank you very, very much.
So, what would you recommend from the perspective of Neat Video?
First Deshaker or Neat Video?
And what's about intergrate something like Deshaker to Neat Video in the future? I'm sure it would be better than Deshaker does it.
I'm always surprised what Neat Video does.
It's the best software I ever hold in my hands.
Thank you very much again.
And I hope the last "scratch" the tramtracks elimination will be solved soon.

Fifonik
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:51 am
Location: Australia, Brisbane

Re: Tramtracks

Post by Fifonik » Thu May 30, 2019 8:45 pm

> First Deshaker or Neat Video?

I asked the same question some time ago (not related to the tramracks).
Was told that it does not really matter. Played a bit and have not notice much difference.
However, I'm applying NeatVideo first as from my point of view if stabilization applied first, the noise characteristics would be different for different frames (their "zoom" level quite often not the same).

NVTeam
Posts: 2377
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Tramtracks

Post by NVTeam » Thu May 30, 2019 11:07 pm

It is worth testing directly in each case but as a rule Neat Video does not need explicit deshaking before it. For its processing, Neat Video can do the necessary "deshaking" adjustments using its own internal tools.

Vlad

Post Reply