Applying default settings for all clips

questions about practical use of Neat Video, examples of use
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Azzriel
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:29 pm

Applying default settings for all clips

Post by Azzriel » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:58 pm

I am usually working with a big amount of footage that I want to apply Neat video.
Almost always I use Neat video as it makes any footage at least just a little better then it is.

What I would like to achieve is:
When I add Neat to Master Clip or any other non master clip, to have Neat do default setting when I add it, without the need that I do anything more.
Since its impossible to play a clip with Neat Video its last step before rendering video out.
99% of my editing is fast "not so much important" videos that do not need precise and perfect edits.
99% i use Auto Profile - Auto Fine-Tune - Temporal filter quality Mode:High - Spatial quality Mode: High. (I do not see difference when adding those 2 options to high, but hey, I guess its better :))

Now I am loosing most of the time waiting for Neat to Input frames and Build, and often I get "Premiere has not provided input frames from the video" "Make sure etc... with all the steps... And I always do it correct (this is a bug from first day I got Neat).
Even if this bug is fixed I still would like to have it automated.

To sum it up: Neat all the clips in the sequence - default setting. Thank you :)

Rendering times are still a huge minus, for a 20min. clip that has a basic color correction (no effects) it sometimes render for 8h on:
i7-7820x 3.6Ghz
32 GB Ram
1080ti
1 SSD to read
1 SSD to write
Without Neat it goes from 20 to 30mins.

Thx!

NVTeam
Posts: 2317
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:12 pm
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Re: Applying default settings for all clips

Post by NVTeam » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:40 am

To some extent, you can apply the defaults automatically. You can set up the default noise profile and default filter preset in Neat Video Preferences (the Defaults tab). This will not allow to automatically do Auto Profile but at least the filter settings would be set automatically when you use the default preset.

> 99% i use Auto Profile - Auto Fine-Tune

Using Auto Fine-Tune in this scenario is redundant, because Auto Profile already does that automatically. No need to repeat.

> Temporal filter quality Mode:High - Spatial quality Mode: High. (I do not see difference when adding those 2 options to high, but hey, I guess its better :))

If you do not see the difference, then the only result of switching from Normal to High is the increased render time. I recommend to not do that, unless you see the improvement in preview.

> often I get "Premiere has not provided input frames from the video"

That is something entirely determined by Premiere, unfortunately. Neat Video is just a messenger in this situation.
I wish Premiere always worked properly.

> Rendering times are still a huge minus, for a 20min. clip that has a basic color correction (no effects) it sometimes render for 8h on:

This sounds quite abnormal. Please try to run the test in Optimize Settings in Neat Video Preferences, Performance tab.
Please post the results of that test here. Please make sure the quality is set to Normal in the filter.

Thank you,
Vlad

Azzriel
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:29 pm

Re: Applying default settings for all clips

Post by Azzriel » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:52 pm

Hey Vlad,

Thx for the help.
Today I got time to do the tests, here are results and observations:

Renderind through Media Encoder - All other apps closed
After 4h40mins of rendering I gave up, as it was still 11h30mins remaining.
DNxHR/DNxHD MXF OF1a - 10 bit - 1080p.
Final video is 22mins, 1 audio track, shots from a7sii - 4K, and Atomos ProRes - 4K, exporting to HD.
All clips have Neat. (default settings)
All clips have Basic color correction. (Lumetri Color / only playing with settings from "Basic Correction" tab)

Directly from PPro 2018 - same setup as above:
With Neat - after 20mins of rendering was at 2% and remaining time was 9h:34mins and slowly rising so I gave up
Without Neat - 15mins.

Looking at task manager all the time I noticed that without Neat, 1080Ti is at around 25-30% usage, while using Neat is at 1 or 2 %.


Neat test:

Frame Size: 3840x2160 progressive
Bitdepth: 32 bits per channel
Temporal Filter: Enabled
Quality Mode: Normal
Radius: 2 frames
Dust and Scratches: Disabled
Slow Shutter: Disabled
Spatial Filter: Enabled
Quality Mode: Normal
Frequencies: High, Mid, Low
Artifact Removal: Enabled

Using:
CPU: 15 cores (16 total)
GPU: 0 devices (1 total)

Frame Size: 3840x2160 progressive
Bitdepth: 32 bits per channel
Mix with Original: Disabled
Temporal Filter: Enabled
Quality Mode: Normal
Radius: 2 frames
Dust and Scratches: Disabled
Slow Shutter: Disabled
Spatial Filter: Enabled
Quality Mode: Normal
Frequencies High, Mid, Low
Artifact Removal: Enabled
Edge Smoothing: Disabled
Sharpening: Disabled


Before testing for some reason Neat was set to CPU only so all of the above is without GPU... I am 100% sure it was CPU and GPU before.

Neat Video 4.8.2 Pro plug-in for Premiere

Detecting the best combination of performance settings:
running the test data set on up to 16 CPU cores and on up to 1 GPU
GeForce GTX 1080 Ti: 7920 MB currently available (11264 MB total), using up to 100%

CPU only (1 core): 0.472 frames/sec
CPU only (2 cores): 0.961 frames/sec
CPU only (3 cores): 1.27 frames/sec
CPU only (4 cores): 1.67 frames/sec
CPU only (5 cores): 1.92 frames/sec
CPU only (6 cores): 2.3 frames/sec
CPU only (7 cores): 2.44 frames/sec
CPU only (8 cores): 2.79 frames/sec
CPU only (9 cores): 2.97 frames/sec
CPU only (10 cores): 3.22 frames/sec
CPU only (11 cores): 3.26 frames/sec
CPU only (12 cores): 3.28 frames/sec
CPU only (13 cores): 3.26 frames/sec
CPU only (14 cores): 3.22 frames/sec
CPU only (15 cores): 3.14 frames/sec
CPU only (16 cores): 3.12 frames/sec
GPU only (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 4.03 frames/sec
CPU (1 core) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 2.7 frames/sec
CPU (2 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 4.07 frames/sec
CPU (3 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 4.5 frames/sec
CPU (4 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 4.9 frames/sec
CPU (5 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 5.08 frames/sec
CPU (6 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 5.49 frames/sec
CPU (7 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 5.1 frames/sec
CPU (8 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 6.1 frames/sec
CPU (9 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 6.13 frames/sec
CPU (10 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 6.1 frames/sec
CPU (11 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 5.92 frames/sec
CPU (12 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 5.95 frames/sec
CPU (13 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 6.13 frames/sec
CPU (14 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 6.25 frames/sec
CPU (15 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 6.17 frames/sec
CPU (16 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti): 6.02 frames/sec

Best combination: CPU (14 cores) and GPU (GeForce GTX 1080 Ti)



So now that CPU + GPU is on, I made the same test in Premiere Pro (skipping Media Encoder as it for some reasons takes more time than directly from PPro).
Started at 4h40min total render time, and when it got to 2% of rendering like in the example before (10minutes from start) its at 11h, more than in the previous example where GPU was off.

Disk usage in all cases = from 1 to 5%, memory usage in all cases is 13GB of total 32GB . All other applications are closed.

I know each PC configuration is different as well as the footage/effects etc. but is there an approximate how much time it takes if you render a video with Neat ? (2x, 5x 10x ?).

It does wonderful things, so I am ready to do any more test you can think of to get it faster. (except for buying new PC :D)

NVTeam
Posts: 2317
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:12 pm
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Re: Applying default settings for all clips

Post by NVTeam » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:12 pm

Please try to disable (or delete Lumetri from the clips where you apply Neat Video) and then check if the expected render time changes significantly.

Thank you,
Vlad

Azzriel
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:29 pm

Re: Applying default settings for all clips

Post by Azzriel » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:42 am

Disabled Lumetri on all clips. After 10 mins of rendering I am at 2%, time left - 7h and slowly rising. GPU usage from 0% up to 2%. Checked preferences in Neat, its still using CPU + GPU.

I did another test which gave great results:
1. Exported full 22min. clip to MXF with Lumetri, without Neat (took 15min).
2. Imported MXF in timeline in track above original, made cuts where they are originally, copy/pasted Neat effect from original to upper tracks.
3. Exported MXF with Neat - 35min. (GPU usage 9% to 11%)
So it takes under 1 hour this way, instead of 10h.
Not how I would like to work in the future, exporting/importing just to add Neat effect . This video did not have many clips in total so took me 10 minutes to copy/paste and cut MXF.

So I guess its raw footage type thats cousing the problem ?
Its also strange that when exporting original clips + Lumetri + Neat uses max. 2% of GPU.

NVTeam
Posts: 2317
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:12 pm
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Re: Applying default settings for all clips

Post by NVTeam » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:13 pm

Some comments:

1. Some raw formats make Premiere do work slower when Premiere also has to apply temporal effects (like Neat Video) to these clips. It is a Premiere thing and it can be avoided by conversion to another format before using the clip in Premiere.

2. Lumetri applied before/above Neat Video to the same clip causes a huge slowdown of Premiere due to a known bug in Lumetri (this is described in Neat Video webpage). It is better to use Lumetri after/below Neat Video or to apply them separately altogether.

3. When you check the GPU usage in Task Manager, please make sure you look at "Compute_0" graph, not overall figure or "3D" graph as those do not show the correct thing for Neat Video.

Thank you,
Vlad

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