Strange quality issue in FCPX

resolve technical issues related to use of Neat Video
Airbusjoerg
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:50 pm

Strange quality issue in FCPX

Post by Airbusjoerg » Tue May 08, 2012 7:31 pm

Hi Folks,

I've found a strange issue in FCPX. I have a very bad footage with lot of noise. After denoising with NeatVideo it looks good so far - in the viewer of FCPX (high quality, full screen).

See it here: http://www.airbuscockpit.de/original.jpg

If I now share it WITHOUT any encoding (as it is) - the same ProRes 422 as the project - it should look exactly like in the viewer.
But it looks much worse, as you can see here:

http://www.airbuscockpit.de/artefakte.jpg

That is - as said before - without any encoding - the output file is done in a few seconds.

Why is this? It should look like in the viewer in that case, shouldn't it?

Best regards
Jörg

NVTeam
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Post by NVTeam » Wed May 09, 2012 8:51 am

The viewer in FCPX shows the actual result of the rendering. The clip in QT shows the results of encoding (ProRes 422 is encoding too). The problem you see is most likely encoding artifacts (or decoding artifacts, introduced by the player when reading the clip file). To know for sure I would need a reproducable test case for direct tests.

Thank you,
Vlad
Image Image Neat Video team
noise reduction for video and photos

Airbusjoerg
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:50 pm

Post by Airbusjoerg » Wed May 09, 2012 9:17 am

Hi Vlad,

I'm not sure regarding the encoding. The project with its footage is PR422, the clip was already PR422 before using it. If I share it in that same PR422, the duration for that output is only 2-3 seconds and the Final-Cut-guys say, in that case no encoding is done (output same as project).

Would you like to get this original clip for playing around and testing? I would upload it to my webspace, if needed.

Best regards
Jörg

NVTeam
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Post by NVTeam » Wed May 09, 2012 9:35 am

ProRes 422 is a (lossy) codec, it applies encoding by definition. Rendering is done using uncompressed image data, the clip contains compressed data. There must be an encoding step to get from one type of data to the other.

I would need a clip and project you use or an instruction on how to set up the same project to reproduce the problem, preferably in details. The goal is to reproduce the problem.

Vlad
Image Image Neat Video team
noise reduction for video and photos

Airbusjoerg
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:50 pm

Post by Airbusjoerg » Wed May 09, 2012 9:40 am

Hi Vlad,

ok, understood.

I will upload the file and a detailed description how to get there this evening. Nevertheless many thanks for your help!!

Best regards
Joerg

Airbusjoerg
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:50 pm

Post by Airbusjoerg » Wed May 09, 2012 1:40 pm

Hi Vlad,

here we go.

Under http://www.airbuscockpit.de/test.mov.zip you'll find a 3 second clip.

It was taken with an 550D (it is a very bad footage!), and rendered into PR422 using 5DtoRGB.

Now import it into FCPX and put it onto a timeline. Apply NeatImage on it (auto profile, the big area left of the mirror). When you hit Apply, the corrected footage looks fine (high quality mode, fullscreen).

Now hit Share -> Export Media and under "video codec" leave "current settings", which means, no encoding takes place. If everything went well, you now should see the problems in the output file - without enconding something!

Best regards
Jörg

NVTeam
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Post by NVTeam » Wed May 09, 2012 2:11 pm

Thank you, we will download it and try to reproduce the issue. Most likely, it is the effect of encoding done by the current video codec.

Vlad
Image Image Neat Video team
noise reduction for video and photos

NVTeam
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Post by NVTeam » Wed May 09, 2012 2:59 pm

Yes, it is reproducable. Also reproducable with the built-in Blur > Gaussian (instead of Neat Video): the FCPX preview with Gaussian looks nice and smooth, but the exported file looks extremely bandy in QT.

But. If you then take this new clip and re-import it back to FCPX, it will look nice there, in FCPX. Which indicates that the problem may be in QT player itself.

Vlad
Image Image Neat Video team
noise reduction for video and photos

Airbusjoerg
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:50 pm

Post by Airbusjoerg » Wed May 09, 2012 3:47 pm

Strange Thing. When I open it with MPEG Streamclip, it also looks poor. Is that, because MPStreamClip uses the quicktime-component of the OS also?

NVTeam
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Post by NVTeam » Wed May 09, 2012 4:48 pm

I don't know how StreamClip works, but it is of course possible that it uses QT.

Vlad
Image Image Neat Video team
noise reduction for video and photos

Airbusjoerg
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:50 pm

Post by Airbusjoerg » Wed May 09, 2012 6:11 pm

Anyway, thanks a lot!

garters
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Post by garters » Sun May 20, 2012 10:23 pm

Yes, I am sure MpegStreamslip uses quicktime :)

mtermale
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Confirming Banding Issue upon export

Post by mtermale » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:04 pm

I've read through this thread and I can confirm that when Neat renders within FCPX (currently running 10.0.6), the render looks beautiful with no banding. However, When I try to export, the clip looks VERY different, with lots of noticeable banding, much worse quality than in FCPX's viewer. I've exported the clip using ProRes 422, 422 HQ, and even Uncompressed 8Bit, and they ALL show the same amount of banding issues. It's a shame because the footage looks immaculate within FCPX - but what's the point if we can't deliver it with the same quality? I've played back the clips in Quicktime 7, X, MpegStreamclip, and AJA TV - and the banding appears in all all viewer applications. There has to be a way to maintain the smooth quality that shows in FCPX viewer. Both rendered and unrendered NV applied footage looks pristine BEFORE export. Someone please explain a way to export a master file with the same quality! Thanks!!

NVTeam
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Post by NVTeam » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:20 pm

Please try these two tests:
NVTeam wrote:Also reproducable with the built-in Blur > Gaussian (instead of Neat Video): the FCPX preview with Gaussian looks nice and smooth, but the exported file looks extremely bandy in QT.
Is it reproducible with Gaussian instead of Neat Video in your project?

NVTeam wrote:If you then take this new clip and re-import it back to FCPX, it will look nice there, in FCPX.
Does the exported and then re-imported into FCPX clip look better in FCPX than in other players?


Thank you,
Vlad
Image Image Neat Video team
noise reduction for video and photos

mtermale
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:42 pm

Tried the NV Team Suggestion

Post by mtermale » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:54 pm

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried applying Gaussian Blur to the same clip and exported it with ProRes422. The guassian blur exported file had some noticeable banding, however in FCPX viewer it had none. When pulling that exported clip back into a FCPX timeline, the banding that showed up in Quicktime X went away. SO - it appears that somehow FCPX is showing us a more immaculate preview and is rendering video for display differently. I'm not sure what this means and what a good possible solution could be. I actually just tried to render and export the same clip in FCP 7 with NV - and the same thing is happening. Video looks pristine in Final Cut viewer, but the exported file is showing degraded quality and banding. Both versions of Final Cut are having the same issue. If this is the case - how can Neat Video be used to accurately clean up video and then delivered via file export in full quality??

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